Well, I Feel Like an Asshole/Idiot

"Denver Is Stuck In The 90s" (denver80222)
06/07/2016 at 03:44 • Filed to: None

Tonight upon exiting my girlfriends driveway, I apparently ran over her families’ trash cans. She lives in the mountains so night visibilty is slim to none. What bugs me is I didnt see them when I knocked them over backing out, nor did I see them when I apparently ran them over. Her dad is most certainly gonna rip me a new one tomorrow morning when I go over there to pick her up. If you find my body somewhere in a ditch, you know why.

Also I need to vent. In order to drive my gf where she needs to go, go to school and get to work; I have been driving 800 miles a week and spending $450 a month on gas, getting up at 5:30am and getting home at 2am. I work nights and my performance at the counter has been lacking and I’m weeks behind on my homework. Maybe what happened tonight is a sign Im stretching myself too thin. I dunno, Im just glad Im moving in with my gf in a couple weeks, so I won’t be driving so much and I could get decent sleep.

Anyway gnight oppo, tomorrow will be stressful and there may be a bit of crying involved.

DISCUSSION (60)

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/07/2016 at 03:50

Home at 2:00 and out at 5:30? Yeah, you’re pushing yourself pretty hard.

Gotta take care of yourself. You only go around once.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny
06/07/2016 at 03:55

What sucks is what happened tonight is making me so anxiety ridden that I dont think Im gonna sleep tonight. Ive been home for an hour, she lives 15 miles away and I have to be back there to take her to school in 4 hours

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/07/2016 at 03:59

That really sucks, I’m sorry to hear that. Don’t know what to suggest, but whatever works for you to relax (run, walk, meditate, whatever) so you can get some shuteye.

When you're that anxious, give yourself a break—you can deal with tomorrow...tomorrow.

AM3R shamefully returns > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/07/2016 at 04:04

Man that’s a long day. Does she not drive or something? She can’t get a ride from her parents?

Sam > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/07/2016 at 04:04

I feel like her dad may have serious issues if he is going to care that much about some trash cans. They cost like 60 bucks. Just replace any broken ones. Also, holy shit you need to not be on a schedule like that. Massive amounts of stress can lower your overall life expectancy by up to 10 years.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > AM3R shamefully returns
06/07/2016 at 04:07

Both her parents work, she still has her permit because she has difficulty getting seat time behind the wheel and with me driving a stick, I cant give her seat time (she wants to learn on an auto, then learn stick)

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Sam
06/07/2016 at 04:09

I have multiple chronic auto-immune diseases, I gave up the idea of living a long life a long time ago. And I will buy more trash cans, the ones he uses are like $15 bucks though. And hes from texas, if that explains anything about his personality

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/07/2016 at 04:23

Calm down. Less than 2 weeks until you move in, and then you have much more time and less stress. Just cool off and sleep. I’m sure he’ll understand about the trash cans, easy to replace.

zeontestpilot > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/07/2016 at 06:11

When you see him, tell him you can buy him new ones, or chip in on some new ones. I might help alleviate some anger.

Also, you're stretching yourself thin. Take a day off, or force yourself to enjoy the day. Life is easier when you enjoy the small things. Source: me.

xyzabc > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/07/2016 at 06:19

Why are you talking “trash”?

TheRealBicycleBuck > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/07/2016 at 08:00

Holy crap, talk about screwed up priorities! If she were my daughter, there better be a ring on her finger before she moved in with some boy. That is infinitely more important than some trash cans.

There’s a right way to go about doing things in life. I believe people should get all their own stuff worked out - school, job, etc. - before bringing someone else into their mess, especially someone who is totally dependent on them. I wouldn’t want a girl who couldn’t function on her own.

I think about what would happen to my wife and kids were I to die tomorrow. It could happen. I’m secure in the knowledge that it would be hard, but they would have everything they need to get their start on an independent life.

I think about how my kids changed my life. Both were conceived when we were actively avoiding having kids. I remember how hard it was to finish school while being married, having a job, and having two kids. I remember my father-in-law asking me when I was going to get a “real” job and start fully supporting my family. I remember the stress when my wife was tired, the babies were crying, I was exhausted, and I still had work to do.

If the girl is worth it, she will wait. She will wait for you to get your life in order and she will work to get her life in order. That way you get to be two independent people who choose to be together instead of two dependent people who can’t function without the other.

I will apply these standards to any boys who come to see my daughter. I will apply these standards to my son when he starts thinking about dating girls.

Good luck to you. Remember, it’s not about the garbage cans.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 08:23

Kinda feeling attacked right now for just venting. I’m dating my girlfriend, not your daughter. And you dont understand my situation, please dont assume.

Patrick Nichols > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 08:30

Chill out. Not your life, not your problems, and the year is 2016 you might want rethink what you’ve just said.

Patrick Nichols > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/07/2016 at 08:33

Do what you feel you need to do. Life is tough no matter what, and infinitely easier with the right people in your life.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/07/2016 at 08:41

All I know is what you’ve said. You’re really busy trying to get your life sorted out. Job, school, illness, all weigh heavy on your mind. Add to that a girl who is dependent on you for transportation. A girl who doesn’t see the additional toll she is taking on your life. A dad who, by what you’ve said, appears to care more about his garbage cans than his daughter.

Relationships are so much better when both people can function independently and choose to be together to the benefit of both. I can say this because I’ve been there. I almost married a girl that was a drain on my well-being. Once that was over, I found the strength to fix my own problems, go back to school, and move up in life.

I’ve also seen this from a child’s perspective. Growing up in a single-mother household wasn’t easy, especially when she made the decision to go to college. It was something she needed to do to make our lives better, but it was hard on both of us. The upside is that I learned what it meant to work hard. I also swore that I wouldn’t put my children through the things I went through.

I’m not attacking you, I’m trying to provide perspective and hoping you won’t make mistakes that might screw up your long-term goals.

The Dummy Gummy > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 08:54

I love how people like you think your method is the only and right method. People have different lives. Your method isn’t the only one and isn’t the perfect one. Clearly by your posts you have your faults, so let people live their lives how they want to live them.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Patrick Nichols
06/07/2016 at 08:54

“Chill out. Not your life, not your problems, and the year is 2016 you might want rethink what you’ve just said.”

If Denver wasn’t looking for other people to provide feedback , then why would he post his problems on a public forum? If he’s looking for lots of feels from his bros, why would he choose a forum where a sizable portion of the participants are old enough to be his father (as I am).

One of the reasons there are so many broken families in 2016 is that so many adults don’t take a more conservative stance and support a whole-family perspective. Families work better when two whole people come together, make a lifelong commitment, and work toward common goals. Perhaps more children should rethink what I just said.

TheRealBicycleBuck > The Dummy Gummy
06/07/2016 at 09:01

“I love how people like you think your method is the only and right method.”

I love how people ignore the experience of others and assume their own way is right. I’m old enough to have experienced other “methods” of living - not just for myself but through the mistakes my friends and family have made. I’m also old enough to have made mistakes of my own and learned from them.

The Dummy Gummy > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 09:06

Clearly you aren’t old/wise enough to know you shouldn’t put people down while trying to dole out life advice.

I have learned hard lessons along the way too, but I wouldn’t put someone down if I saw someone doing the same thing I did. I’d give them my experience.

Your post was extremely condescending and judgy. Two things that are frowned upon in this community.

TheRealBicycleBuck > The Dummy Gummy
06/07/2016 at 09:10

Keep in mind that Denver chose to air his dirty laundry here. Also keep in mind that people bring their own perspective to every situation, especially when interpreting written word. What is “condescending and preachy” to one person is speaking the truth to another.

The Dummy Gummy > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 09:17

Sure.

Kinja'd!!!

smobgirl > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 09:48

If she were my daughter, there better be a ring on her finger before she moved in with some boy.

Well, my dad and I may not have the best relationship, but I’m thankful he’s never tried to exert this sort of control over my life.

Best of luck, Denver. There's an end goal in sight, but it might help if you give yourself little sub goals between now and then so you can mentally break the stress into smaller chunks. At the end of a marathon, I take that race a block at a time.

Opposite Locksmith > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 10:56

I’m 22 and live with my girlfriend, you mad?? We are fiercely independent tho

Kinja'd!!!

Opposite Locksmith > Sam
06/07/2016 at 10:57

Hey man I'm from Texas and I'm sweet as can be

TheRealBicycleBuck > Opposite Locksmith
06/07/2016 at 11:09

Not mad. Just sad. I nearly made the same mistake. I’ve yet to see that situation work out long-term for anyone in my circle of family and friends.

Opposite Locksmith > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 11:13

You’re really onto something. I’m glad youre proclaiming your findings and speculations on other peoples lives. Other people besides yourself really need to be made aware of your opinion on deep aspects of their life. Really, thank you.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Opposite Locksmith
06/07/2016 at 11:17

Glad to be of service.

vicali > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/07/2016 at 11:17

Could’ve been worse, do they have any pets?

Sounds like your candle is a little low.. Take it easy. lol, yeah, I bet moving in with your gf is going get you more ‘sleep’.. better not tell her dad that bit.

yamahog > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 11:18

“If she were my daughter, there better be a ring on her finger before she moved in with some boy.”

LMAO, thank you for reminding me to be grateful my dad is a human instead of a caveman.

TheRealBicycleBuck > yamahog
06/07/2016 at 11:42

Kinja'd!!!

Time will tell. Talk to me in 10 years.

area man > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 12:30

I moved in with my girlfriend 5 years ago. She is now my wife. Your perspective on priorities is good, but the idea that you have to be engaged before moving in together is so dated it’s painful. That may have flown 20 years ago when incomes and living expenses were a lot closer together - not anymore. Plus how do you know if you can live with a person without testing the waters first?

yamahog > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 12:31

I lived with Travis for over a year before he proposed. He’s not the first partner I lived with. Living with a partner does not mean you are a codependent shell of a person. *Magically* I’ve also reached 26 with zero kids. Sorry you’re so trenched in your own rules that you reject the possibility of anyone else succeeding in a different way.

The Dummy Gummy > yamahog
06/07/2016 at 12:48

The disturbing thing is that when confronted there is no remorse. What is even more disturbing is there are many many many like him. It is sad because when people are in ruts, what they need most is compassion.

I lived with my wife for 5.5years before we were married and we turned out just fine. If we had a kid before we were married, oh well... it would have been a blessing/miracle. Times would have been harder (due to time management), but we would have gotten by as our family has supported us completely along the way. I truly feel sorry for those who don’t have the support system/open minded families/friends to rely on.

TheRealBicycleBuck > area man
06/07/2016 at 12:54

Glad to see it has worked out for you so far. The numbers say that my “outdated” position is still relevant.

“Those who cohabited before engagement (43.1%) reported lower marital satisfaction, dedication, and confidence as well as more negative communication and greater potential for divorce than those who cohabited only after engagement (16.4%) or not at all until marriage (40.5%).” ( http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/fam/2… )

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

“Premarital cohabitation has consistently been found to be associated with increased risk for divorce and marital distress in the United States. Two explanations for this “cohabitation effect” are discussed: selection and experience. We present an empirically based view of how the experience of cohabitation may increase risk for relationship distress or divorce for some people beyond what is accounted for by selection. Specifically, using a commitment framework, we suggest that some couples who otherwise would not have married end up married because of the inertia of cohabitation. We discuss practice implications for relationship transitions that are characterized more by sliding than deciding, especially where a transition such as cohabitation increases inertia to remain in a relationship regardless of quality or fit.” ( http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.… )

Xyl0c41n3 > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 13:18

Um. Dude. Back the fuck off. Who cares if Denver and his girlfriend move in together before they're married? Not everyone ascribes to your draconian beliefs about what women can and can't do.

TheRealBicycleBuck > yamahog
06/07/2016 at 13:22

“I lived with Travis for over a year before he proposed. He’s not the first partner I lived with. Living with a partner does not mean you are a codependent shell of a person. *Magically* I’ve also reached 26 with zero kids. Sorry you’re so trenched in your own rules that you reject the possibility of anyone else succeeding in a different way.”

*Luckily* you have reached 26 with zero kids. While the chance is small, no form of birth control is 100% effective. Source: 1) two kids of my own while using control that should be 99.9% effective; 2) the friend of mine who was born with an IUD (99% effective) embedded in her right ear. But don’t believe me! “... nearly half of all cohabiting unions have children.” ( Source )

I don’t reject the possibility of it working out some other way, but living together first doesn’t guarantee long-term success as you have proven yourself. It doesn’t even guarantee greater marital satisfaction, dedication, confidence in the relationship, or a successful marriage if it proceeds to that point.

Breaking up with a cohabiting partner is similar to going through a divorce. http://yourdivorcequestions.org/blog/cohabitat…

Breaking up with a cohabiting partner is legally more difficult than dealing with a divorce. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclop…

I’m glad you found the right partner. So far, you lost to the odds once, then beat them the second go-around.

Xyl0c41n3 > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 13:24

I lived with a partner before and magically had no children or devolved into a pit of codependency. My father is also a minister. Never once has he tried to treat me like a piece of property or dictate what I can or cannot do. He's actually the main reason why I'm an independent, outspoken, fearless woman. Guess what? I’m a fairly successful person and my dad is one of my best friends. We respect and love each other without judgment. You should try that sometime.

Xyl0c41n3 > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 13:29

The plural of “anecdote” is not “data.”

yamahog > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 13:37

First off, birth control failure isn’t a guarantee of children. Some people choose to take “actively avoiding parenthood” more seriously than others.

Second, I don’t think your links are accounting for people who have an unplanned child, *then* move in together. Also speaking of children, perhaps they’re responsible for that whopping 3% difference in satisfaction between people who cohabitated before and after marriage. Seeing as they’re a leading factor in marital unhappiness.

Finally, marriage and/or children are not end goals for every relationship, even when living together. Yet another projection you’re making onto other peoples’s lives.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Xyl0c41n3
06/07/2016 at 13:42

“Um. Dude. Back the fuck off. Who cares if Denver and his girlfriend move in together before they’re married? Not everyone ascribes to your draconian beliefs about what women can and can’t do.”

It’s amazing to me how many young people who ascribe to that line of thought immediate assume that I have “draconian” beliefs about what women can and cannot do. I was raised by a single mom. I believe that women can aspire to achieve whatever goal they wish to achieve.

I also believe that men and women should hear about the potential consequences of their decisions, especially when it comes to a lack of commitment and a potential for long-term harm to others, specifically children.

Go back and read what both Denver and I wrote. He complained about his situation. I suggest that his situation is a direct result of his misplaced priorities, his life might improve if he changed his priorities, and warned him of the risks of the path he has chosen.

The statistics back me up. Most people who live together first are less satisfied with their relationships and are more likely to divorce. Most also bring kids into the world. These are facts, not opinions.

Denver is a young guy struggling for success. I wish him the best in life and love. I hope he recognizes that the path he is choosing is the harder path to follow. As the old saying goes, “simplify and add lightness.”

Xyl0c41n3 > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 13:54

And you make the mistake of assuming I’m a young 20-something with no idea of how life works. I’m a professional, educated woman who has faced a fair enough share of trials and tribulations.

Being raised by a single parent doesn’t mean your beliefs aren’t draconian. You literally said: “Holy crap, talk about screwed up priorities! If she were my daughter, there better be a ring on her finger before she moved in with some boy.”

Thankfully, Denver and his girlfriend are both adults and don’t need anyone else’s permission besides their own.

And hey, guess what? Once your daughter hits 18, she won’t need YOUR permission, either.

If you want to preserve a relationship with her once she becomes an adult, one where you BOTH view and respect each other as adults, you might want to try treating her with the respect she will duly deserve as an independent, freethinking individual. Because at this point? I wouldn’t blame her at all for shutting you out of any and all of the “big” conversations of her life because she knows you either won't approve/won't listen to her/will demean, belittle, or infantilize her.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Xyl0c41n3
06/07/2016 at 14:16

“I lived with a partner before and magically had no children or devolved into a pit of codependency.”

Again, it wasn’t magically, it was luckily. Also, I’m glad that you successfully navigated the relationship dissolution process.

“My father is also a minister. Never once has he tried to treat me like a piece of property or dictate what I can or cannot do. He’s actually the main reason why I’m an independent, outspoken, fearless woman.”

By writing this, I assume that you believe I treat women as property and dictate what they can and cannot do. If that is the case, let me share a little secret - I don’t do either of these things. Not once have I tried to control my wife. She is independent and strong, two of the reasons I married her in the first place. In fact, she works as an owner’s rep and bosses around big burly construction workers on a daily basis. She would laugh at the mere suggestion that I treat her like property.

By the way, my suggestion for Denver was that both he and his girlfriend work on becoming independent and strong before they take their relationship to the next level.

“Guess what? I’m a fairly successful person and my dad is one of my best friends. We respect and love each other without judgment. You should try that sometime.”

I’m glad for your success. I’m also glad you managed to find someone to share that with.

I love and respect my daughter, but I make no claims as to being her best friend. I’m her father, not her buddy. My job is to make sure she gets what she needs in life, physically, mentally, and spiritually. It seems to be working - she just won her school’s top award for achievement in academics and service.

By suggesting that I don’t love and respect my daughter without judgement, you are absolutely right. I love and respect my daughter AND I make judgments every day about who she is associating with, the activities she is participating in, and the decisions she makes. Her mother and I give her advice on what paths she should consider and why. Once she leaves our home she will make decisions on her own. When she’s ready for that, I’m sure she will test the waters and make some questionable choices, but we will always be there to help her pick up the pieces.

Now, who is judging whom in this little exchange?

Xyl0c41n3 > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 14:29

My dad wasn’t my best friend when I was a child, he was my father. I’m talking about my relationship with him now that we are BOTH adults.

Your children will always be your children, but one thing you’ll realize when they’re grown is that, at that point, they get to choose whether or not they also want to value you as a friend and confidant irrespective of your blood relationship. How you treat them during their formative years (and yes, you ARE treating your daughters like property) will influence much of that decision in their adult years.

Also, I love how you have told EVERY SINGLE WOMAN on this thread who has responded to you that our successes in our careers, relationships, breakups, and children/lack of children is all a matter of chance. That we all just had a string of happy accidents that kept us from the “horror” of out-of-wedlock kids or soul crushing breakups.

We’re not even your kin yet you’re demeaning and infantilizing US.

If your wife is as strong as you say she is (and I have every confidence that she is), she’d probably be the first one to tell you that even a person who strenuously insists to be a champion of women can also be a person who is sexist as fuck.

You’re damned straight I’m judging you for it, because all you’ve done since your first comment here is judge the fuck out of everyone else, from Denver and his girlfriend (who isn’t even here to defend herself), to Yamahog, to Smobgirl, to me.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Xyl0c41n3
06/07/2016 at 14:42

I fully expect any young man who wants to live with my daughter to show her the respect of a commitment with a ring and a vow before doing so. If that’s “draconian” in your eyes, then so be it. Funny thing is, my wife, my mother, and my in-laws all expected the same.

I believe that people need to hear the options and potential consequences before making decisions. Sometimes that comes out harshly.

I made one assumption about you - that you were young. Everything else I take at your word. i have made no assumptions about Denver. He laid it all out for us to see.

In contrast, it appears that you are making lots of assumptions about me. Feel free to do so. Just realize that your assumptions and your upbringing color the glasses that you are wearing as well as my assumptions color mine.

Xyl0c41n3 > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 14:52

You haven’t just made one assumption about who I am, you’ve made many and you’re continuing to do so. (FTR: you’re also making a whole helluva lot of assumptions about the other women who have responded to you here. You’ve also spoken to us with a different tone than you’ve used to address the men in this thread. Funny that, isn’t it?)

My upbringing involved conservative Christian values: no premarital sex, no premarital cohabitation, children above career (for women), and other traditionally “conservative” values.

Even before I became an adult, I had already made a number of decisions about which of those values I wanted to cleave to myself and which ones I would leave aside or reinterpret for my own life. While I was under my parents’ roof, I abided by their rules and respected their beliefs, even though I disagreed with many of them.

Ring before marriage/marriage before cohabitation may be something that was expected of you and your parents and something that you ultimately chose to do, but just because you expect that of your daughter doesn’t mean things will end up that way.

My point still remains: if you want to have a happy, healthy and thriving relationship with your daughters once they’re grown, you’ll treat them with more respect than you currently are, regardless of whether or not they follow the path you *hope* they will.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Xyl0c41n3
06/07/2016 at 15:00

Minor point - I only have one daughter - and despite your assertion otherwise, I don’t treat her like property. I treat her like a child, which is exactly what she is. My son, also a child, is treated the same. Despite my supposed mistreatment of my children (per your assertion), both are well-rounded kids who are responsible (my son less so due to his age) and successful both in school and in life. My daughter already demonstrates her strength by setting lofty goals and working hard to achieve them.

Every behavior in life has risks and rewards and despite our best efforts chance plays a role in all of them. I did not say that success is solely based on chance. I said that certain behaviors carry certain risks. Some of us make fully-informed choices by thinking through the risks and potential rewards.

I can tell you that I suffered as a child left without a father at home. I can tell you that my cousins are suffering as children without a father at home. Yes, being raised in a single-parent household with a single income sucks beyond belief. From your statements I assume that you haven’t experienced that for yourself.

As for what I’ve said being “demeaning and infantilizing,” I disagree. I’ve been pointing out facts. Perhaps you should consider how your own attitudes are coloring your perspective.

Xyl0c41n3 > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 15:05

TheRealBicycleBuck > Xyl0c41n3
06/07/2016 at 15:33

My “tone” is a direct reflection of the “tone” directed at me. Unlike others in this conversation so far, I haven’t chosen derogatory or defamatory language to support my position. Kindly recall that you placed yourself in this position and I dare say that your tone is considerably more defensive than mine.

On some points we agree. My children will be making their own decisions and reaping the rewards or suffering the consequences just as I did when I left home. The difference is that I’m teaching them to consider all of the potential consequences before making a decision such as having premarital sex or moving in with someone. But you are right, their lives will be their own and they may not make the decisions I would have them make. Not much we can do about that except prepare them the best we can.

I still find it amusing that you assume I treat my kids with little or no respect. I suppose this is the difference in what we consider respectful. I don’t curse at my kids. I don’t make unreasonable demands. I talk to them about choices and consequences. While other people in our area are actively seeking potential mates for their kids (seriously, we’ve already had parents talking to us about getting our kids together for dates), our focus is on getting them to college. What they do from there is their choice to make.

Sweet Trav > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 20:23

Well considering Mine and Yamahog’s household is in the top 8 percent in income in our metro area, We are both college educated and dont want kids, just race cars. I’d say we have our ducks in a row. Hell, she even makes more than me (not counting bonuses)

While I think that there is some merit in having your life together before you enter a “serious” relationship, if everyone is a responsible adult, and you are working towards a common goal often times you can help each other succeed. Personal Anecdote, without Yama, I wouldn’t have the kick ass job that I have now, her co-worker’s husband is my boss, when Yamahog heard that her coworker’s husband needed another sales guy, I submitted my resume and got the gig.

Also in 10 years, there’s better than average chance there will be two Corvettes in our driveway along with our existing vehicles, so I guess we have that going for us.

Sweet Trav > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 20:35

You also fail to mention that the two greatest stresses on relationships after marriage are household economics and the way that an adult relationship changes after children arrive.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Sweet Trav
06/07/2016 at 20:58

That’s all fantastic but it’s a far cry from Denver’s situation. He's at the other end of the spectrum - the one at greatest risk of failure in cohabiting situations. Take a look at some of the research I linked to. You will see what I mean.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Sweet Trav
06/07/2016 at 21:06

That’s discussed in the papers I linked to. It’s also an important part of what started a lot of the vitriol towards me. I specifically warned about the statistics concerning contraception and the numbers of cohabitants who find themselves with child (50%). Do you think it’s wise for an uneducated young person struggling with work and school to put himself in a situation where he has a 50/50 chance of becoming a father with a woman who can’t support herself, especially knowing that the average cohabiting relationship lasts only 18 months?

To me, this doesn’t seem like a winning combination.

Sweet Trav > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 21:09

Or they save $600 so if an unplanned pregnancy were to happen they can CTRL+Z that cluster of unwanted cells, if that’s what they want to do.

Cohabitation isn’t the issue, Family planning, children and the percentage of income they require to raise is.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/complete-…

Also great that you’re responding to the “man of the household” but not Yamahog on these comments. Should she get back in the kitchen? Maybe be barefoot and pregnant? She’s waiting for a response you know.

I mean perhaps you’re right, or maybe, just maybe couples with aligned priorities and the fortitude to see them through are stronger than a single person can be.

Sweet Trav > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 21:13

You don’t seem to grasp how statistics work.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Sweet Trav
06/07/2016 at 21:36

Not sure what you mean about responding to the “man of the household.” I’ve responded to every notification I’ve received through Kinja

As to your other accusations, perhaps you could take a moment and read the entire thread. I’ve made it clear that my wife works and that I fully support her decision to do so. It seems that Yama and the other ladies who jumped on board did so with their own biases that color their perception of what I wrote. But when I clearly state that I fully support women’s rights, it’s alluded that sexists hide behind a mask of support for women’s rights. It would be nice if people would take my words at face value. It’s impossible to have discourse when it’s assumed that everything the other person says is a lie.

Family planning is great when it works. The whole point is that it fails. According to the statistics, it fails frequently. Taking you at your word, I believe that you and Yama are college educated and have formed a two-income family with easy access to family planning services. Do you believe this to be the case with Denver? Do you agree that his choices are putting him in a position for greater success? Do you see where some people took advice out of context, applied to a completely different situation, then went on the attack?

Are you saying that a high school graduate who is struggling his way through college, who is planning to rescue a girl who can’t support herself is the equivalent of two college grads who made the decision to cohabitate and then successfully parlayed that decision into a marriage? Really? You don’t think that when said student airs his woes on the net perhaps he needs to hear something other than “I feel you, bro?”

TheRealBicycleBuck > Sweet Trav
06/07/2016 at 21:45

Care to explain how I don’t understand statistics? It seems like I have a pretty firm grasp on them. Let’s start with the number of cohabiting couples that end up with children. The paper doesn’t disaggregate the numbers, so we have to assume that the 50% represents both wanted and unwanted pregnancies. We have to further assume that the distribution is even between the two, so a cohabiting couple has a 25% chance of having a wanted pregnancy, 25% chance of having an unwanted pregnancy. Given that the numbers are also not disaggregated by income level, I would postulate that those pregnancies are heavily skewed toward the low-income side. Now that we’ve clarified the situation, perhaps now you can address the differences between your situation and Denver’s. I suspect that the two of you are disconnected from the realities of poverty and the struggle to find success when caught in that situation.

Sweet Trav > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/07/2016 at 22:23

A 50/50 chance for all cohabiting couples does not mean a 50/50 chance for a singular cohabiting couple.

Not to mention 75% of all cohabiting couples are using cohabitation as a step towards marriage.

What you’re missing is, whether it’s a formal proposal or an understanding that eventually they will be married, most cohabiting couples have an expectation for marriage.

You’re basing a lot your findings on assumptions, but we do know that roughly 40% of all births are to unwed mothers.

I think if anything the advice needs not to be on the draconian issue of marriage, but rather economic stability for both him and his girlfriend. At his age, I can’t say that I would be ready to live with someone, but I’m not Denver. It’s also not my place to judge others based on their decisions.

It’s clear that Denver understands the level of commitment to make a relationship work. It’s also clear that he is doing his best to make it work, despite his situation. It would also appear that he isn’t delusional about what the possible consequences of his actions are.

Instead of offering advice that contradicts his plan, I choose to offer advice that works with it, but my advice does rest on certain beliefs. Namely that family planning is a right. If Denver and his Girlfriend aren’t willing to use family planning services in the event of an unplanned pregnancy, then they should disregard my comments, however if they are and have some cash saved up for such an occasion, and are willing to do what is best for their future, there is little long term danger of cohabitation, and seeing where things lead.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Sweet Trav
06/07/2016 at 22:54

I’m not sure how you can say that I’m basing my findings on assumptions when I provided links to the research that states the source of the data, the findings, and a discussion of the limitations of the research. While it may be difficult to apply the general statistics to a particular situation, they are indicative of the risks. As I said before, his particular situation has more risk factors for producing children out of wedlock.

The intentions when entering a cohabiting relationship aren’t disaggregated in the data, but it sounds like you expect greater success when the intention is marriage That isn’t supported in the data as it has been presented. No matter the intention, as I pointed out before, the divorce rate is higher and satisfaction rates are lower in couples who cohabitate before marriage.

I’m clear in my assumptions that he is stacking the deck against himself based on his age and his economic situation. People like to throw around the word “judge” but rarely clarify whether they mean in the discerning sense or biblical sense. Most people don’t know the difference and assume they are the same. If you mean the biblical sense, then we are on the same page regarding people judging others. If you mean in the discerning sense, we disagree. People make judgements about themselves, objects, situations, and other people all the time. After all, what makes one car better than another? Your judgement, nothing more.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
06/08/2016 at 09:20

Out of curiosity, how much later could you sleep if your girlfriend wasn’t dependent on your for transportation? Furthermore, hypothetically if you were to break up tomorrow what would she do the next day to get to school? Regardless of your relationship status it is obscene that her family relies on you so much to get their daughter to school and work. Surely your girlfriend realizes the very real health risk this is putting on you and is trying to find another way.

And tell your girlfriend in the nicest way possible to put on her big-boy pants and learn to drive with what’s available. She’s an adult (I hope) and needs to come to terms with things not going as planned. It sounds like you’re trying to be the best boyfriend you can be but you are going about it in a very nearsighted way. Play the long game. Take care of yourself, because a wasted hulk of a Marcus is a lot less fun for everyone involved. Don’t use your immune disorders as an excuse to take poor care of yourself, you deserve better than that. We live in a time of rapid scientific advancement so nothing is written in stone.

Please do what you can to change your situation for the better. Re evaluate how far you’re willing to hurt yourself so your girlfriend’s family can be... the way they are. Make them take some responsibility for their own daughter’s well-being.

Good luck.

Flies With Thunderbirds > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/08/2016 at 09:24

Wedo genuinely care about your health and suffering from lack of sleep is an extremely dangerous situation to put yourself in. I understand doing anything to help for someone you love, but your health should come first because if you don’t take care of yourself, you can’t take care of her.